I'm just a wallflower at some events. If I listened to music or watched films I might get some answers at film and music themed events, but that's my problem. Please don't think I expect events to be run so I know all the answers.
But some events I just don't have a chance, and often it's because the event is so culturally biased that no-one who is not from that country can possibly get it. And, because the dominant world culture is American, it's always American themes. And I really really don't want to offend anyone in particular, but American ads, TV shows, that guy who used to say "Heeere's Johnny!", whoever Johnny is, and most US celebs are, well, just a foreign country to me.
Hey, I hear you say, pots, kettle, glass houses and stones! She's always asking all those Father Ted questions! So in a spirit of true British fairness and not a little trepidation I'll look at the last 100 questions I asked at Lilly's, asking which country the answer was to do with.
Hilda Static won the Lilly's T-shirt Challenge today, just beating Kiri to the answer, and winning 250L and a Karmel and Lotus T-shirt. The question was "what plant is absinthe and pastis flavoured with?", the answer was anise.
And the results are now in: France 5, Canada 1, UK 21.5, Germany 5 , USA 13, Rwanda 1, Russia 3, Italy 0.5, Sweden 1, Turkey 1, Mexico 1, Paraguay 1, Australia 1. Many questions have no national bias at all.
So about 20% of my questions are British, but don't forget that I host with a Polish and an American cohost. Nelly and I used to run a bias count at Lilly's but we stopped because the USA was always streets ahead. Incredibly someone once accused me of being too American. If you host try it on your own questions. Sometimes I think the bias must approach 80-90%
Of course some events are so redeye for me I never go. I have no idea if New Zealanders and Australians fill 6pm slt events bitching about cultural bias. If there are only Americans and Canadfians on at that time then there is no point in playing to European sensitivities. Oh, and, by the way, I have great admiration for players who hold their own when English is their second language (yes Bo, Krogare and Chantal, I mean you)
There is something that is particularly galling. We call blind canes white sticks over here, and soccer is football, and we have our own Monopoly board. I got in first with all those correct answers only to lose because I didn't do American. C'mon guys, give us a break!
Oh yes, Coronation Street is a British soap opera, Marks and Spencer is where we all buy our knickers as the rest of the world calls them, and Ab Fab was a 90s sitcom. You so wanted to know that.
And for 50L, answer in comments please, here's an American one to make it up to you.
Which American state was initially called Kanawha?
West Virgi.... I can't do it. On behalf of American's everywhere, I protest the results of your poll! America should always beat England! No justice no peace! No justice no peace!
ReplyDeleteWell you got 75% of the letters Josh so maybe I should just pay you 37.5L for West Virgi(nia)
ReplyDeleteI generally allow myself to ask a maximum of one exclusively British question in each half at Moysies. The occasions i have done DS i have done no more than one in the set.
ReplyDeleteI have also crt+c-ed my royale with cheese rant from lette's blog for you.
As a player what irritates me most is the little language differences. On this side of the pond typists correct errors with tippex not whiteout, champagne and orange juice is bucks fizz not mimosa, “Love in the First Degree” was a hit for Bananarama not Alabama. Water boils at 100 degrees not 212 degrees. Knowing immediately that Bob Beaman’s long jump world record from Mexico ’68 was 8m90cm turns out to be useless when the host insists on everyone ploughing through pages of spam to get to 27’ 2½”
Here's my bias count for my last Impromptu Garden Trivia:
ReplyDeleteUSA 2 (one, plus two halves), Canada 2, England/UK 3.5, Western hemisphere 1, Italy 2, Greece 1, China 1.5, Kenya 0.5, Portugal 0.5, Germany 2, France 1, Argentina 1, Netherlands 1, Russia 1... and I wasn't sure where to place the question about turtles.
I had a little conversation about country bias with one of my trivia cohosts who is neither Reke nor Lillian before a game for which he'd prepared mostly U.S. questions. When I mentioned it to him, he counted for himself and said that only three of fifteen were about the U.S. I counted nine. As it happened, he was only considering the geography and history questions to be biased, while I was including all of the pop culture and sports questions that were U.S.-specific, too.
We take for granted what is local to us, so it's hard to recognize what it is that an international crowd will pick up on or not. For instance, just because the Indiana Jones movies were released overseas doesn't mean that other nations are as saturated in the culture and symbols that are associated with the impact the franchise has had on action films and Harrison Ford's career. Or maybe they are... I don't know, and that's the point. It's easier to keep the questions mixed than to try to guess what American stuff is "universal" enough not to be biased. Cuz really, none of it is. It's just that some questions will have a stronger bias than others.
I'm not perfect, of course; my Chaos sets are more likely to be U.S.-biased than an Impromptu trivia I hold at 9am SLT (5pm in the UK). And I invite critique if I unknowingly slip. I want everyone to feel like they can play in my games.
What point is there ranting about "irritating" language differences, which are for the most part, completely unintentional? Ridiculous and arrogant, really. We can't help being products of our cultures. I, for one, enjoy the language differences and find it interesting learning other cultural terminology. I don't expect people to cater to my particular cultural niche, especially if I'm in the minority (which I often am, America is a stupidly big ass place, and my American upbringing was not typical -- I've lived in several other countries, including the UK, and would have answered Bananarama well before Alabama, thanks).
ReplyDeleteTrivia steeped in cultural bias is a different issue and, I agree Lotus, it's rampant. For the most part, I think it's just thoughtless question writing... though I think, as a player, you should concede to the nationality of the host. As a host myself, I try to be sensitive to it when I write questions and be culturally diverse. That is to say, my questions have a global awareness. My answers are still coming from my American brain, can't be helped.
And right away I get comments from two of the most culturally aware hosts in SL! I know Mako and Lette you think deeply about your questions, and probably deeper than I do.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right, and an American host at 6pm slt is going to ask a lot of American questions. That's how it should be.
When I did my bias count I used a very loose definition, so Shakespeare and Jane Austen counted as UK event though they are well known all over the English speaking world, and I did this for exactly the reasons Lette says: I can't assume that other countries are as familiar with Jane as we are here. From what Lette has said to me before, I think I'm right not to make that assumption.
Anyway, I do hope we're all still friends. Groundhog Day is my favourite film of all time, and Green Day are just awesome (except for that last one).
While being aware of cultural issues in the framing of my weekly trivs, I am also conscious of age, gender, religious and political bias.
ReplyDeleteBeing a junior member of a large community, my approach and experience of sl trivia may be quite at odds with most. I'm not particularly focused on getting things right and precise, partly because of personal circumstances. I am on a long road to recovery from a traumatic injuries suffered nearly 3 years ago. However, trivia has played some part in connecting with people again, finding some confidence, rediscovering self-discipline and attention span again. (Some of you may will have noted my off putting butterfly comments during trivia).
However, I gain much from learning about other cultures and interests discovred by the questions I could never hope to answer. Such as those about music from the 80's or television shows shown last week in the midwest. I hear about food I have never tasted before or animals and birds not seen in my little village in the south of the UK. I learn new words and laugh at the questions about the Hatfield-McCoy feud. It's all good in this respect. So I don't feel stupid even though I may be viewed as one of the least brainy people at these events. You never lose if you learn something from the experience.
In setting my once weekly trivia, I take great pride in presenting questions that can be answered by a wide audience regardless of their age, background and differing views about a wide variety of subjects. (I admit that I may have an advantage over most hosts as I can spend more time on one set of questions than those daily hosts. (I have certain criteria that I won't bore you with here but my sport questions are hopefully good examples of avoiding bias). The best compliment I can hear at the end of hosting is specifically, 'Great questions Maggie!' from more than one person regardless of whether they got any right or not.
Anyway, that's it. I probably forgot to say enough that makes sense except to say well done Lotus, for raising this vital issue.
Love to All
Mags xxx
For the most part little differences are cute. However, when you are first in local chat with a correct answer to a trivia question but receive no credit because of a minor cultural difference, that IS irritating.
ReplyDeleteI am quite surprised to be labeled "ridiculous and arrogant" - at the time the one person who said it was unfair and a pain in the ass that I got nothing for answering "Bananarama" to the question who had a hit with love in the first degree was Mako Kungfu.
I wholeheartedly back Lotus's call for keeping an eye on culture bias in trivia: Second Life's user base is truly international, and I'm generally in favor of events being inclusive rather than exclusionary. But being culturally aware is not the same thing as being culturally neutral—I think it'd be impossible to do culturally neutral trivia, and agree with Lette that nothing is going to be unbiased. After all, we are who we are, and I would never tell people they can't have (say) themed trivia events built around (say) sports, movie, music, television, history, science, Star Trek, or whatever. They're biased as all heck, and that's fine.
ReplyDeleteI make no effort to eliminate cultural bias from my questions, and I'd be shocked if *anything* I asked were unbiased. But I do try to be accurate, only ask about things where I have a little bit of domain knowledge, and I try to spread the bias around.
Bias estimates from my three most recent games: USA (13), UK (5), Canada (1), Japan (1), China (1), Central America (1), Middle East/Africa (1), Portugal (1) Christian (1). Some questions I counted as both USA and another region because they were about people or events that spanned multiple countries, but it works out to about a 20% USA bias.
However, I also count another 18 questions that have a "western culture" bias, 5 that only make sense in developed nations, 3 that only make sense in the western or northern hemisphere, and maybe a dozen that I reluctantly didn't describe as biased because they concern sciences or things common to the SL experience (e.g., questions about Second Life itself). And 100% of my questions were in English, which is in itself a problem, huh?
And I can't run a tally offhand, but I know for a fact several of those USA-specific questions were "won" by folks who aren't American citizens.
yeah sorry ana, i was tired and being a grouchy bastard when i wrote that comment -- strike the ridiculous and arrogant. i stand by the rest though. i do think it's unfair (and hail bananarama) but i still think players should generally conceded to the nationality of the hosts (who could be better about writing less culturally biased questions).
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm a little surprised by the depth of passion on this topic. My outlook is that most trivia events are hosted by amateurs, people are imperfect, hosts write questions about things they know (or that they think to research), there's bound to be some few mistakes or disagreements, and most importantly - it's supposed to be fun, not world-class competition.
ReplyDeleteIf a host asks a question about an author they happen to like or some TV show that they think is funny and I am profoundly disinterested in or something that was in the news where they live - well, that's just the way it goes, it's an opportunity for me to learn something new that I might or might not choose to avail myself of, and laissez-faire is always a good approach to keep in mind when dealing with other people.
Oh, and a loud "hear, hear" to Lou for pointing out that being culturally aware is not the same thing as being culturally neutral.
I think you have to cater to the audience, or accept that the "biased" sets of questions are going to alienate some people. I frequently go out of my way to add local news from outside North America that I don't think anyone from the US or Canada will answer. It doesn't always work out though.
ReplyDeleteThanks Lotus you've given me my topic for next week ! Get ready for 17th century Uzbekistanian politics ;)
Chadd
Having already written my thoughts on this only to have them lost by the blog system, I have no idea what I was going to say So this is part 2 comments which may not be the same.
ReplyDeleteI think we all agree that to an extent there are certain hosts, more than others, whohave cultural bia. I won’t go to an event at 6pm SLt because it’s way too late, but if I did, I would expect there to be a bias towards the US, because at that time there will be more players from there around. But earlier in the SL day, it’s not unreasonable to expect hosts to cater for Americans and Europeans (and everyone inbetween). I think it’s fair to say that most hosts don’t apply cultural bias, simply because they are also trivia players, and they know who’s likely to turn up and so will cater for them.
As with everything it’s down to the host to make sure they know their audience. Lotus is known for having a few English / European questions, but these are balanced with a variety of questions for everyone else too. One of the ways I measure my trivia (I counted the bias btw, but the internet ate it) is to see who’s getting them right. With the exception of plinking days (ie a day where someone is simply getting everything right) take a look at who’s answering them. If it’s the same 2-3 people, then maybe you have a slight bias. If the answers are widely split between everyone, then to me that’s a good variety to cater for everyone. I remember Lette pointing out at the last impromptu trivia that I went to that the 1st 3 questions had been paid to 6 different people. That, to me, shows no cultural bias whatsoever.
Like you , Lotus, I won’t go to trivia if I know I won’t stand a chance. It’s not about lindens, or necessarily winning, but I don’t see the point in going to something if you just can’t take part. My favourite comment about any trivia was in relation to Anas. When asked if someone was staying at Moysies for the trivia the reply was ‘ I was here last week It was all American stuff.’ Yes of course it was! Some people you just can’t please.
I did tally my latest questions, and there was one for outer space, 5 with no country at all and 5 with both UK and US. These were all entertainment ones, and I always try to pick films, shows or songs which I know are recognised on both sides of the Atlantic. I know this because they are usually American ones which I have watched my self over here.
And as for Cultural bias – well bias them all towards me and I’ll be happy
If only you whiny bastards would study up so you'd know everything about everything, this issue would go away! *Giggle*
ReplyDeleteNo, seriously, this is an interesting issue, Lotus, and one everyone has given some good thoughts on. My perspective is that I try not to ask questions that provide an advantage to anyone culturally, but that's simply impossible, unless we wanted to reduce all trivia simply to a series of math questions. *Giggle* Bottom line is that the universe of subjects and questions that are equally accessible to everyone are very limited, and there will always be some people who have an advantage on some subjects/questions based on their backgrounds and upbringing. For instance, I can almost guarantee I have no shot at any question on classical music, opera, or art. I ain't very cultured. ;) But I don't begrudge people asking those questions, and think trivia would be boring if I always knew all the answers. I pretty much count on the fact that I won't have a shot at a few of the trivia questions in any given event based on the subject matter, but as long as the event is fun otherwise, I don't care (more on that below).
When I host, I have to ask questions that I know the answer to, and while I'd love to be able to ask some specific questions about British TV (or Canadian or Australian) or advertising, etc., I don't know enough about them to feel confident asking questions without somehow missing something. So I probably have slightly more North American leaning questions than Euro, but I also try to balance. For instance, if I ask a U.S. History or U.S. Geography question, I try to make sure I have a European-focused question to offset it. So, once again, it's probably the poor polite Canadians who really get screwed. (Sorry Chad and Lou. ;) ).
Bottom line, I have to say, is that the trivia questions are really only about 30% of what I care about in an event. I care much more about the atmosphere of the place and the people there, as I derive more of my fun from chatting/joking and hanging out than I do from getting questions right. And as someone else noted above, if someone asks a very Euro/Brit-centric question that I don't know, I view that as a fun chance to learn something and I usually just try to offer a smartass response to entertain myself and (hopefully) other people. One thing I really have enjoyed about SL is meeting so many great friends from Europe, Canada and other countries. Our diverse backgrounds make preparing trivia that works well for all a -- probably -- impossible challenge. But I try to be very flexible when I host, and I learned just this week that Brits call cotton candy "candy floss," so I'm always happy to pay someone for having the "right" answer in the "wrong" dialect (hehe) if someone tells me that's what's going on.